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Neston Town Council Meeting - December 2009
| Published: 16th December 2009 09:31 |
The final meeting of 2009 took place at Neston Community & Youth Centre, and welcomed the newest Town Councillor, Judy Pugh.
The following is an informal report on December's meeting. Full approved minutes will appear in due course here.
Open Forum
Andy Mills brought a request before the Council to consider the possibility of Town Twinning with Guémené Penfao in France. The suggestion came about following a football tournament in the area, to which Neston Nomads were invited. Andy also explained that the towns have much in common, particularly as regards efforts to engage young people in positive activities.
Chairman Moira Andrews noted the request and stated that this may be something the Council will consider at some point in the future.
Mr Mansfield of Hilltop Lane, Ness, asked to be heard on a Green Belt issue. He explained that he was there to bring the Council's attention to current status of two fields backing onto Flashes Lane, Ness, that are known locally as "The Common." He stated that they have been left untouched for over 25 years and have been home to a number of species of wildlife as well as ancient hedgerows. He went on to explain that the land is privately owned and that recently there has been some activity involving clearing of the land, which may have had implications for the ecology of the area.
Mr Mansfield asked the Council to be alert, as consultees on any planning matters pertaining to the area, should any request to develop this land come before them for consideration.
Chairman Moira Andrews thanked Mr Mansfield for bringing the item to the meeting and acknowledged that both Neston Town Council and Cheshire West and Chester Council are monitoring the situation. Cllr Mike Wellman, Deputy Chairman and Ward Councillor for Ness, also thanked Mr Mansfield and noted that representations have been made to all proper authorities.
Matters discussed by Council included:
The Chairman thanked Deputy Chairman Mike Wellman for deputising at the official switching on of the Neston Christmas lights on December 4th. Cllr Wellman, in turn, thanked Carrie Spacey of the ch64inc Events Group and Town Clerk Alison Kunaj for their contributions to the organisation of the event. - The Chairman noted that she and other Councillors had held an informal meeting with local Cheshire West Councillors immediately prior to the Council meeting and that they intend to continue such meetings on a regular basis.
- The result of the recent by-election for a seat in Parkgate Ward was noted, and the Chairman welcomed Cllr Judy Pugh as the successful candidate. It was confirmed that there had been a 20% turn-out for the election.
- The Employment Committee asked for their recommendation for the employment of a part-time Administrative Officer to be approved by the Council.
- The Boundary Committee asked that three recommendations be approved. They re-iterated their recommendation that the area would be best served by representation resulting from elections in smaller rather than larger wards, and that there should be four wards based on Parkgate, Neston, Little Neston and Riverside & Ness. They further recommended that Burton might be more appropriately included with Puddington in the Mollington and Saughall ward.
- Planning & Environment recommended that Ward Councillors look into the issues of parking on pavements in each of their Wards and report back to the Town Clerk who will then arrange a meeting with the Police and the appropriate officer from CWaC. They also moved that the Council should not approve the request to support the Friends of Park Fields in the voluntary registration of Park Fields as a Village Green, stating that the Council should not support either the Friends or Neston Nomads in this matter as to do so would be prejudicial to one or the other organisation. They further recommended that a memorial bench for the late Neston Town Councillor Philip Owen be placed at St Thomas' Church in Parkgate.
- A discussion took place regarding four memorial benches that are to be placed in various locations in the area. The Finance & General Purposes Committee recommended that two of these be made of Oak from a sustainable source, and two from recycled plastic. Cllr Gaskell put forward his view that it was not appropriate for a recycled bench made to look like oak be placed on the green in Little Neston opposite the Royal Oak pub. A lively discussion with views put forward both for and against the proposal ensued. Put to the vote, the final decision was that all four benches be made from Oak, but it was noted that the Council would endeavour to utilise recycled materials when considering future installations.
- During a discussion of recommendations put forward by the Communications Committee, Cllr Judy Pugh suggested that the Council look at the possibility of surgeries on Friday mornings, to take place in the Town Centre. It was agreed that the issue of dates, times and locations of surgeries be referred back to the Communications Committee for further consideration.
- The Council agreed that a proposed News Management Policy & Protocol be adopted.
At the end of the public section of the meeting it was agreed that there will be an extra meeting of the full Council on 7th January 2010 to discuss next year's precept requirements.
The next regular full Council meeting will take place on Tuesday, January 19th 2010, 6.30pm at Neston Community & Youth Centre.
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Comments
Scott MoreinAt 08:59 on 17th December 2009, Scott Morein commented:
Carrie’s excellent account of the Council meeting brings great disappointment to me.
There were high hopes for what such a body would do for the town, but so far, no definite path appears clear, save for a virtually zealous search for items to spend other peoples money on. As I read the account, the various costly projects discussed in this meeting, and others that went before it, raised many questions. Then, like a shining beacon, the subject of ‘twinning’ cropped up, I laughed aloud in disbelief. Reading on, I wondered if there might be a punch line and there was: An extra meeting has been scheduled to discuss how much tax* the town council want to extract from the residents of Neston and surrounding areas next year. (*The ‘precept’ as it is ambiguously referred to in such circles.)
I very much hope it will be less than the £116,886 the Council has had for this year, and at the risk of sounding a little Scrooge like, I wonder how much of the £2,200 paid to the Christmas Festival was expended on the puddle* in front of the Church. (*More accurately, the ice sculpture that was a kicked over stump within 24 hours, and then a puddle within 48.)
It is curious also how, in the councils own minutes, it is recorded when discussing councillors allowances and expenses that the Cheshire Association of Local Councils, a no doubt august body to which a subscription fee of over £1,100 per annum is paid because of the valuable advice it offers, advised Neston Town Council that no other local council in Cheshire had adopted a scheme of allowances for Members. The decision of ‘our’ council you wonder? To have allowances for Members in addition to a flat allowance to the Chair, no doubt with no need for receipts, of £1,200 per annum, plus the 40p per mile mileage allowance the other councillors awarded themselves, carefully including the proviso that vehicle engine size, is not an issue, unlike any other expenses system I have been involved with. Of course, subsistence is on top of this and so if a councillor has a long day ‘councilling’, subsistence costs alone could be around £25 (plus mileage.)
Then we have the Town Clerk, with a salary of around £35,000 plus membership of one of the last few remaining generous guaranteed pension schemes, who will soon no doubt be ably supported by a part time assistant, albeit on a far less generous wage.
Anyway, back to the subject of twinning. Guémené Penfao sounds like a lovely place, set in the wonderful holiday region of Brittany which is just so like Neston, with the Atlantic waves, cliff top walks and fresh langoustines landed daily and so on, but I am sure Neston taxpayers do not want to pay for jolly jaunts by others to visit there, whether it is a local school, sports club, and certainly none of the councillors. (The new local signage alone would run into thousands, and if you include subsistence, hotels and mileage at 40p, a round trip of 2 days for two councillors would run to a similar amount.
If Neston Town Council wants to spend money somewhere other than Neston*, even if it is just the costs of signage, then why not support fresh water well digging in Malawi, or sponsor literacy projects in Liverpool. Neither requires a visit or signage. (*Then again why would you?)
No doubt these comments will be treated with disdain by the local councillors but if there is one part you should take to heart it is this: At that extra meeting to discuss the precept, why not strive to see how much lower it can be, and have a reduction far greater of just dropping the first year ‘establishment costs’ the original precept included.
Your humble nil cost servant,
There were high hopes for what such a body would do for the town, but so far, no definite path appears clear, save for a virtually zealous search for items to spend other peoples money on. As I read the account, the various costly projects discussed in this meeting, and others that went before it, raised many questions. Then, like a shining beacon, the subject of ‘twinning’ cropped up, I laughed aloud in disbelief. Reading on, I wondered if there might be a punch line and there was: An extra meeting has been scheduled to discuss how much tax* the town council want to extract from the residents of Neston and surrounding areas next year. (*The ‘precept’ as it is ambiguously referred to in such circles.)
I very much hope it will be less than the £116,886 the Council has had for this year, and at the risk of sounding a little Scrooge like, I wonder how much of the £2,200 paid to the Christmas Festival was expended on the puddle* in front of the Church. (*More accurately, the ice sculpture that was a kicked over stump within 24 hours, and then a puddle within 48.)
It is curious also how, in the councils own minutes, it is recorded when discussing councillors allowances and expenses that the Cheshire Association of Local Councils, a no doubt august body to which a subscription fee of over £1,100 per annum is paid because of the valuable advice it offers, advised Neston Town Council that no other local council in Cheshire had adopted a scheme of allowances for Members. The decision of ‘our’ council you wonder? To have allowances for Members in addition to a flat allowance to the Chair, no doubt with no need for receipts, of £1,200 per annum, plus the 40p per mile mileage allowance the other councillors awarded themselves, carefully including the proviso that vehicle engine size, is not an issue, unlike any other expenses system I have been involved with. Of course, subsistence is on top of this and so if a councillor has a long day ‘councilling’, subsistence costs alone could be around £25 (plus mileage.)
Then we have the Town Clerk, with a salary of around £35,000 plus membership of one of the last few remaining generous guaranteed pension schemes, who will soon no doubt be ably supported by a part time assistant, albeit on a far less generous wage.
Anyway, back to the subject of twinning. Guémené Penfao sounds like a lovely place, set in the wonderful holiday region of Brittany which is just so like Neston, with the Atlantic waves, cliff top walks and fresh langoustines landed daily and so on, but I am sure Neston taxpayers do not want to pay for jolly jaunts by others to visit there, whether it is a local school, sports club, and certainly none of the councillors. (The new local signage alone would run into thousands, and if you include subsistence, hotels and mileage at 40p, a round trip of 2 days for two councillors would run to a similar amount.
If Neston Town Council wants to spend money somewhere other than Neston*, even if it is just the costs of signage, then why not support fresh water well digging in Malawi, or sponsor literacy projects in Liverpool. Neither requires a visit or signage. (*Then again why would you?)
No doubt these comments will be treated with disdain by the local councillors but if there is one part you should take to heart it is this: At that extra meeting to discuss the precept, why not strive to see how much lower it can be, and have a reduction far greater of just dropping the first year ‘establishment costs’ the original precept included.
Your humble nil cost servant,
Carrie SpaceyAt 10:00 on 17th December 2009, Carrie Spacey responded:
As ever, I will not engage in pros and cons-type discussions, but I have two points of clarification for you, Scott.
1. The suggestion of twinning came from a member of the public, the Council has not committed to anything. Any member of the public can speak during the Open Forum - are you not tempted to bring up your points there, Scott?
2. The Ice Sculpture was paid for by Cheshire West and Chester Council (as were similar sculptures throughout their patch). It was not kicked over either (thankfully), it just suffered an early demise due to the torrential rain during the night after it was sculpted. You may also be cheered to hear that the Christmas Festival came in under budget and that once all invoices etc have been checked and paid, the Town Council will be receiving some of the grant back.
1. The suggestion of twinning came from a member of the public, the Council has not committed to anything. Any member of the public can speak during the Open Forum - are you not tempted to bring up your points there, Scott?
2. The Ice Sculpture was paid for by Cheshire West and Chester Council (as were similar sculptures throughout their patch). It was not kicked over either (thankfully), it just suffered an early demise due to the torrential rain during the night after it was sculpted. You may also be cheered to hear that the Christmas Festival came in under budget and that once all invoices etc have been checked and paid, the Town Council will be receiving some of the grant back.
Scott MoreinAt 10:26 on 17th December 2009, Scott Morein commented:
Dear Carrie,
I am once again in your factual debt and respect your impartiality. Uncertain of my facts regarding the ice sculpture was the reason it was posed as a question, and not a statement, and I would hope the Cheshire West & Chester Councillors note the cost and outcome, given that it was local taxpayers who did in fact pay for it.
My comments regarding ‘twinning’ remain, in my view, valid and hopefully food for thought for Neston Town Council should such a suggestion rear it’s expensive head again.
As to attending these meetings, then this would presume such attendance and vocalisation of views might have some impact, which I fear, it would not.
Overall however, it is not the few guineas here or there that are the problem, it is the £116,000. Let’s face it, oak benches don’t grow on trees.
I remain at your service.
I am once again in your factual debt and respect your impartiality. Uncertain of my facts regarding the ice sculpture was the reason it was posed as a question, and not a statement, and I would hope the Cheshire West & Chester Councillors note the cost and outcome, given that it was local taxpayers who did in fact pay for it.
My comments regarding ‘twinning’ remain, in my view, valid and hopefully food for thought for Neston Town Council should such a suggestion rear it’s expensive head again.
As to attending these meetings, then this would presume such attendance and vocalisation of views might have some impact, which I fear, it would not.
Overall however, it is not the few guineas here or there that are the problem, it is the £116,000. Let’s face it, oak benches don’t grow on trees.
I remain at your service.
MickAt 12:46 on 17th December 2009, Mick commented:
What a sad set of comments. Carrie has already corrected some obvious errors. And I'm sure our local town councillors don't receive allowances for attending meetings or to meet the costs of their telephone, broadband or postage.
Scott says he won't attend meetings where he could make his views known because they would have no impact. Yet he feels able to criticise the ideas put forward by another member of the public, not a councillor, but someone whose words did have enough impact to make him respond.
It's easy to criticise and carp, Scott, especially when you're not too concerned to get your facts right. I'd rather take notice of those who have the guts to stand up in public and get involved themselves than listen to ill-informed rants.
Where were you, Scott, when nominations for the Town Council were sought? Of course, it's easier to sit on the sidelines and carp.
Scott says he won't attend meetings where he could make his views known because they would have no impact. Yet he feels able to criticise the ideas put forward by another member of the public, not a councillor, but someone whose words did have enough impact to make him respond.
It's easy to criticise and carp, Scott, especially when you're not too concerned to get your facts right. I'd rather take notice of those who have the guts to stand up in public and get involved themselves than listen to ill-informed rants.
Where were you, Scott, when nominations for the Town Council were sought? Of course, it's easier to sit on the sidelines and carp.
Carrie SpaceyAt 13:22 on 17th December 2009, Carrie Spacey responded:
We have received the following letter from website visitor Stephen Whitaker who has been unable to log in to leave the comment himself due to a technical glitch:
"I just wanted to say that many twinning associations receive no funding from their local authority including this one which is known to me.
Lane End in Buckinghamshire, England is twinned with Saint-Pierre d'Oléron in Charente-Maritime, France.
The Lane End Twinning Association (LETA) facilitates and co-ordinates visits and exchanges to encourage co-operation between the people and organisations of our two communities. These aims were formalised in the Twinning Charter signed, in England and France respectively, in 1999 and 2000. We in Lane End feel privileged to have such a friendly and welcoming Twin as Saint-Pierre.
The Lane End Twinning Association (LETA) was formed in 1998. Our Committee meets as required, on average monthly. LETA's Annual General Meeting is held in February when plans for the forthcoming year, and the financial state-of-affairs, are reviewed. We therefore are run by volunteer efforts. The funds that we raise are used for LETA events and initiatives. Committee members pay their own way, in common with other members, should they travel to Saint-Pierre. LETA membership is open to all of the population of Lane End and to our neighbouring villages.
LETA is self-financing through its own fund-raising activities (see Constitution). Unlike some of our neighbouring, Thames Valley, Twinning Associations, we receive nothing by way of support from any source. Such independence does mean that we can decide to do whatever we wish, subject always to budget, without being beholden to any funding agency. We did, in 2001, apply for, and receive, a modest sum from the EU's Twinning Agency in Brussels. It seems clear to us, in the light of recent experience in 2003, that such funding is being directed more towards the newer EU entrants.
Local fund-raising events in the early days of Twinning included an Auction of Promises, Wine Tasting, Ferret Racing, a Review loosely based on the Folies Bergères and, routinely, a presence at the annual Lane End Village Fete in June. In December we hold a Christmas Musical Evening which is always well supported."
Stephen Whitaker.
"I just wanted to say that many twinning associations receive no funding from their local authority including this one which is known to me.
Lane End in Buckinghamshire, England is twinned with Saint-Pierre d'Oléron in Charente-Maritime, France.
The Lane End Twinning Association (LETA) facilitates and co-ordinates visits and exchanges to encourage co-operation between the people and organisations of our two communities. These aims were formalised in the Twinning Charter signed, in England and France respectively, in 1999 and 2000. We in Lane End feel privileged to have such a friendly and welcoming Twin as Saint-Pierre.
The Lane End Twinning Association (LETA) was formed in 1998. Our Committee meets as required, on average monthly. LETA's Annual General Meeting is held in February when plans for the forthcoming year, and the financial state-of-affairs, are reviewed. We therefore are run by volunteer efforts. The funds that we raise are used for LETA events and initiatives. Committee members pay their own way, in common with other members, should they travel to Saint-Pierre. LETA membership is open to all of the population of Lane End and to our neighbouring villages.
LETA is self-financing through its own fund-raising activities (see Constitution). Unlike some of our neighbouring, Thames Valley, Twinning Associations, we receive nothing by way of support from any source. Such independence does mean that we can decide to do whatever we wish, subject always to budget, without being beholden to any funding agency. We did, in 2001, apply for, and receive, a modest sum from the EU's Twinning Agency in Brussels. It seems clear to us, in the light of recent experience in 2003, that such funding is being directed more towards the newer EU entrants.
Local fund-raising events in the early days of Twinning included an Auction of Promises, Wine Tasting, Ferret Racing, a Review loosely based on the Folies Bergères and, routinely, a presence at the annual Lane End Village Fete in June. In December we hold a Christmas Musical Evening which is always well supported."
Stephen Whitaker.
Stephen WAt 18:29 on 17th December 2009, Stephen W commented:
I must point out that I am a Neston resident and that it was only a little glitch with the PC that prompted my rather roundabout method of posting. The information from Buckinghamshire is quoted rather than written by me.
I think the key point is that twinning arrangements are NOT about jollies for the councillors but about genuine people to people international contacts and that this could be achieved in Neston with little more than the goodwill of the Town Council and the hard work of those who wish to see it happen..
If the the Cheshire West Council’s Executive has decided not create any new formal twinning links and will not continue with the arrangements made by the former Chester City and Vale Royal Councils and the Mayor’s Office at Ellesmere Port, it seems likely that the Lane End model will have to be adopted by those people interested in creating a Neston link with France.
So the £12,000 of council taxpayers money will be the last spent in this way and are in any case pretty small beer in terms of local authority spending on social, recreational and cultural activities.
The signage costs of course were historical and are unlikely to be high on the priority list of any future activity.
I do know where the European Union get it’s (sic) money from…
Getting a little bit of it back isn't anything to be ashamed of , is it?
I think the key point is that twinning arrangements are NOT about jollies for the councillors but about genuine people to people international contacts and that this could be achieved in Neston with little more than the goodwill of the Town Council and the hard work of those who wish to see it happen..
If the the Cheshire West Council’s Executive has decided not create any new formal twinning links and will not continue with the arrangements made by the former Chester City and Vale Royal Councils and the Mayor’s Office at Ellesmere Port, it seems likely that the Lane End model will have to be adopted by those people interested in creating a Neston link with France.
So the £12,000 of council taxpayers money will be the last spent in this way and are in any case pretty small beer in terms of local authority spending on social, recreational and cultural activities.
The signage costs of course were historical and are unlikely to be high on the priority list of any future activity.
I do know where the European Union get it’s (sic) money from…
Getting a little bit of it back isn't anything to be ashamed of , is it?
Scott MoreinAt 09:12 on 18th December 2009, Scott Morein commented:
Dear Mr. Whitaker,
I looks like we do in fact agree that Neston Town Council funds should not be used for twinning. Further, I am sure we also agree what people do with their own time, and funds they raise for their own particular causes and interests, is entirely a matter of personal choice. I disagree however that £12,000 is small beer, and the figure is I believe, but not certain, higher than this. (It looks like there are more than 6 such twinning associations in receipt of the grant.) In addition, I don’t have information as to how much has been paid to Cheshire twinning associations over the years.
If you as an individual wish to support such an enterprise, then I wish you and your like minded colleagues well, and we can rest this issue in the knowledge that Neston Town Council and Cheshire West & Chester, will not be asked to provide any funding.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am supportive of there being a Town Council, but maintain my view that when the Councillors meet to discuss the precept, they should look to reduce the amount added to council tax bills next year, and the reduction should be by a margin greater than just because it is the year after establishment.
Sincerely,
I looks like we do in fact agree that Neston Town Council funds should not be used for twinning. Further, I am sure we also agree what people do with their own time, and funds they raise for their own particular causes and interests, is entirely a matter of personal choice. I disagree however that £12,000 is small beer, and the figure is I believe, but not certain, higher than this. (It looks like there are more than 6 such twinning associations in receipt of the grant.) In addition, I don’t have information as to how much has been paid to Cheshire twinning associations over the years.
If you as an individual wish to support such an enterprise, then I wish you and your like minded colleagues well, and we can rest this issue in the knowledge that Neston Town Council and Cheshire West & Chester, will not be asked to provide any funding.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am supportive of there being a Town Council, but maintain my view that when the Councillors meet to discuss the precept, they should look to reduce the amount added to council tax bills next year, and the reduction should be by a margin greater than just because it is the year after establishment.
Sincerely,
Stephen WAt 09:26 on 18th December 2009, Stephen W commented:
All things are relative and in terms of the following £12000 is indeed small beer!
THE cost to establish and rebrand Cheshire West and Chester Council is £12m.
The total budget for the transition from a two-tier system to the unitary authority was revealed by a Freedom of Information Act request made by the Chester Chronicle to the council.
In the financial year 2008/09, £7.7m was spent on the transition – and the council expects to spend a further £5m this financial year.
Costs incurred so far include:
A total of £26,021 was spent on signs on streets, car parks and buildings.
It cost £45,826 to issue Cheshire West and Chester uniforms to staff.
The council had to spend £30,487 on rebranding council vehicles and changing the liveries.
Since the council became active on April 1 this year, it has spent a further £33,890.23 on the transition – £14, 157.19 on clothing, £17,590.79 on printing and £2,142.25 on marketing.
It has cost the taxpayer a total of £300,000 so far to move people and equipment and standardise the computer systems during the restructure.
THE cost to establish and rebrand Cheshire West and Chester Council is £12m.
The total budget for the transition from a two-tier system to the unitary authority was revealed by a Freedom of Information Act request made by the Chester Chronicle to the council.
In the financial year 2008/09, £7.7m was spent on the transition – and the council expects to spend a further £5m this financial year.
Costs incurred so far include:
A total of £26,021 was spent on signs on streets, car parks and buildings.
It cost £45,826 to issue Cheshire West and Chester uniforms to staff.
The council had to spend £30,487 on rebranding council vehicles and changing the liveries.
Since the council became active on April 1 this year, it has spent a further £33,890.23 on the transition – £14, 157.19 on clothing, £17,590.79 on printing and £2,142.25 on marketing.
It has cost the taxpayer a total of £300,000 so far to move people and equipment and standardise the computer systems during the restructure.
Charlie - Little NestonAt 20:37 on 18th December 2009, Charlie - Little Neston commented:
I should like to congratulate Judy Pugh on being elected to Neston Town Council. It's heartening that three people wanted to become councillors, as when the council started, only 16 people volunteered for the 17 places.
Judy's suggestion that councillors should hold surgeries on Friday mornings in Neston is brilliant: that is when Neston is buzzing, and people who might not otherwise contact the council might come while shopping.
Judy's suggestion that councillors should hold surgeries on Friday mornings in Neston is brilliant: that is when Neston is buzzing, and people who might not otherwise contact the council might come while shopping.
andy mAt 22:11 on 18th December 2009, andy m commented:
I'm glad the issue of twinning has stimulated a debate and i'm grateful for some of the information provided above. Just for the record i didn't ask the council for any money i merely asked for their thoughts on the matter with a view to potentially getting their support sometime in the future.
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